When the debate is forfeited because of truth, sound logic, and just reason, you win. Keep fighting the good fight, Mr. Finkelstein. You are a honorary legend among the perverse.
This is not surprising. The Israelis have been so used to being given an easy ride, with pulled punches and soft questions; now that the world is starting to open its eyes and present the facts of their brutality without fear, they refuse to engage. I have had at least three pro-Israeli substackers block me from commenting on their writing. They do not like the truth. As the good Prof. says, Truth is a very powerful weapon.
@occi Intellectual laziness really doesn't excuse any of us from watching a video where Finkelstein actually explains the backstory for that. We're all guilty of intellectual laziness from time to time; it fuels our reactionary confirmation biases and sparks a disinformation chasm (born of misinformation with conviction).
Try this link from 2010: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlfwNSIktmE - It's short and explains the reasoning behind statements he made that have since been taken way out of context. I am pro-boycott, divestment, and sanctions, and I understand precisely the thoughtful reasoning Finkelstein presented. The reactionary firestorm it created is indicative of the level of intellectual laziness into which this country has become so deeply mired.
Thank you for this! Yes - he makes it clear that he is not against BDS in principle. Rather, he just does not think it is the best means towards attaining success.
Thank you for that. NF states almost every time he speaks that facts are what he seeks to document and to share. That professional philosophy is what demanded of him to degree with the BDS movement. It's obvious it wasn't because he's against boycotts, divestment, and sanctions. I can't imagine him eating Sabra hummus, not because it's awful hummus, but because it's Israeli.
I'm reminded of the Platonic texts where it's made obvious that the goal, or objective, of the Sophists is not to inform but simply to 'win' argument. The 'facts' matter little to the Sophists, their agenda is to use any means possible to gain advantage, not to obtain justice or insight.
Those arguing in good faith attempting to understand and comprehend the examples under discussion encounter manipulation, wilful ignorance and obfuscation. Isn't this what the Zionists are engaged in when they present their tribalist 'arguments' attempting to 'justify' their existence based on the illegal expropriation of the land and resources of those already occupying the territory they covert? Their arguments are nothing more than cheering for their team, regardless of what moral turpitude their 'team' may be engaged in?
Zionism is a crime, and Israel is the manifestation of that crime.
Both Israel and America seek not to inform, develop, and grow in ways mutually amenable to others but to follow the violent paths of offensive realism as described by Mearsheimer. Note how their societies are marked by paranoia, mistrust, and violence as they've drawn closer together over the decades.
Norman Finkelstein’s views on the Boycott, Divest and Sanction movement may be somewhat shortsighted, by Ali Abunimah
Ali Abunimah is author of One Country, A Bold Proposal to End the Israeli-Palestinian Impasse. He is a co-founder of the online publication The Electronic Intifada and a policy adviser with Al-Shabaka.
"So the question then for Norman Finkelstein and Zionists who are horrified by the idea of a one-state solution, is: could they accept two states on such terms? If the answer is yes, then it is clear that the BDS call is completely compatible with a two-state solution, and Finkelstein should withdraw his claim that this is mere deception.
If Finkelstein and Zionists cannot accept a two-state solution on these terms, then we know it is not the number of states that concerns them. Rather, their priority is to preserve racial and colonial privileges for Jews at the expense of fundamental Palestinian rights.
That is something Palestinians and their allies, as with nationalists in Northern Ireland, can never – and must never – accept, no matter how many states exist in their respective homelands." ~Ali Abunimah
Well put. " ... the goal, or objective, of the Sophists is not to inform but simply to 'win' argument." Indeed, the anti-intellectual nature of the US and exemplar of Orwell's "Four legs good, two legs bad" pissing competition that is threatening to take us all down.
I see that the opposition to the motion included Natasha Hausdorff, UK Lawyers for Israel's poster girl, who lied about the legality of the pager attacks, and publicly gloated about their 'success'.
Prof. Morris is, pardon the expression, a windbag. Full of very vile hate gas. You win by default and you win because you’re on the right side of history. Plus it demeans your stature being on the same dais.
Too bad you weren’t there. Despite that, Susan Abulhawa gave one of the most powerful and convincing speeches I have ever heard by a Palestinian defending their rights to the land.
When the debate is forfeited because of truth, sound logic, and just reason, you win. Keep fighting the good fight, Mr. Finkelstein. You are a honorary legend among the perverse.
Free Palestine!
Why are they so afraid of Prof. Finklestein? Is it because his arguments are so cogent and theirs lies.
This is not surprising. The Israelis have been so used to being given an easy ride, with pulled punches and soft questions; now that the world is starting to open its eyes and present the facts of their brutality without fear, they refuse to engage. I have had at least three pro-Israeli substackers block me from commenting on their writing. They do not like the truth. As the good Prof. says, Truth is a very powerful weapon.
UK Lawyers for Israel blocked me on X. My offence? Saying very politely re the arrest warrants that the law should take its course.
Ah, the "not fair using reason!" defense.
Cowards always run from the truth. And as someone who never quarrels with facts, Prof Finkelstein is on the side of truth.
Ah Prof Morris, the thinking person’s favourite coward.
@occi Intellectual laziness really doesn't excuse any of us from watching a video where Finkelstein actually explains the backstory for that. We're all guilty of intellectual laziness from time to time; it fuels our reactionary confirmation biases and sparks a disinformation chasm (born of misinformation with conviction).
Try this link from 2010: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlfwNSIktmE - It's short and explains the reasoning behind statements he made that have since been taken way out of context. I am pro-boycott, divestment, and sanctions, and I understand precisely the thoughtful reasoning Finkelstein presented. The reactionary firestorm it created is indicative of the level of intellectual laziness into which this country has become so deeply mired.
Thank you for this! Yes - he makes it clear that he is not against BDS in principle. Rather, he just does not think it is the best means towards attaining success.
Thank you for that. NF states almost every time he speaks that facts are what he seeks to document and to share. That professional philosophy is what demanded of him to degree with the BDS movement. It's obvious it wasn't because he's against boycotts, divestment, and sanctions. I can't imagine him eating Sabra hummus, not because it's awful hummus, but because it's Israeli.
lol amen to that on all counts! If you're going to culturally appropriate something, at least make an attempt to do it right!
I'm reminded of the Platonic texts where it's made obvious that the goal, or objective, of the Sophists is not to inform but simply to 'win' argument. The 'facts' matter little to the Sophists, their agenda is to use any means possible to gain advantage, not to obtain justice or insight.
Those arguing in good faith attempting to understand and comprehend the examples under discussion encounter manipulation, wilful ignorance and obfuscation. Isn't this what the Zionists are engaged in when they present their tribalist 'arguments' attempting to 'justify' their existence based on the illegal expropriation of the land and resources of those already occupying the territory they covert? Their arguments are nothing more than cheering for their team, regardless of what moral turpitude their 'team' may be engaged in?
Zionism is a crime, and Israel is the manifestation of that crime.
https://substack.com/@poshlost1/note/c-79559400
Both Israel and America seek not to inform, develop, and grow in ways mutually amenable to others but to follow the violent paths of offensive realism as described by Mearsheimer. Note how their societies are marked by paranoia, mistrust, and violence as they've drawn closer together over the decades.
Finkelstein, BDS and the destruction of Israel
Norman Finkelstein’s views on the Boycott, Divest and Sanction movement may be somewhat shortsighted, by Ali Abunimah
Ali Abunimah is author of One Country, A Bold Proposal to End the Israeli-Palestinian Impasse. He is a co-founder of the online publication The Electronic Intifada and a policy adviser with Al-Shabaka.
"So the question then for Norman Finkelstein and Zionists who are horrified by the idea of a one-state solution, is: could they accept two states on such terms? If the answer is yes, then it is clear that the BDS call is completely compatible with a two-state solution, and Finkelstein should withdraw his claim that this is mere deception.
If Finkelstein and Zionists cannot accept a two-state solution on these terms, then we know it is not the number of states that concerns them. Rather, their priority is to preserve racial and colonial privileges for Jews at the expense of fundamental Palestinian rights.
That is something Palestinians and their allies, as with nationalists in Northern Ireland, can never – and must never – accept, no matter how many states exist in their respective homelands." ~Ali Abunimah
Read article here:
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2012/2/28/finkelstein-bds-and-the-destruction-of-israel
Well put. " ... the goal, or objective, of the Sophists is not to inform but simply to 'win' argument." Indeed, the anti-intellectual nature of the US and exemplar of Orwell's "Four legs good, two legs bad" pissing competition that is threatening to take us all down.
I see that the opposition to the motion included Natasha Hausdorff, UK Lawyers for Israel's poster girl, who lied about the legality of the pager attacks, and publicly gloated about their 'success'.
Prof. Morris is, pardon the expression, a windbag. Full of very vile hate gas. You win by default and you win because you’re on the right side of history. Plus it demeans your stature being on the same dais.
Thank you Dr Finkelstein
Always the truth. Never back down.
A former student from wbai @ bklyn ny
I love you Mr. Finkelstein💝
Too bad you weren’t there. Despite that, Susan Abulhawa gave one of the most powerful and convincing speeches I have ever heard by a Palestinian defending their rights to the land.
Professor, they are only cowardly. You are the lion ✌️😎
Norman, you remain a gold standard in speaking the Truth! Onward and upward my comrade!
I imagine that Morris would consider his decision an intelligent one.
As l am limited for time, l started a naughty and nice list, and Prof. F. Is top of my nice list.
I pray every day for the perseverance of the Just. Thank you.